Episode 29: Restaurants Part 2

Today we continue our conversation about restaurants and restaurant culture in the United States, including explaining a little about how tipping works here. And of course, because it's us, we'll also talk about favorite restaurant foods.

Show Notes

Transcript

D           Welcome to Coffee and Conversation for ESL Listening. I'm Donielle.

K            And I'm Khrystyna, so grab a cup and join the conversation.

D           Hello, hello, how are you?

K            I'm doing well. I feel like it's been a while since we've done this and since we've talked to each other.

D           I mean, but for real this time, it's been a while because you are one busy lady. I gotta like, I gotta find any little corner of time I can to get with you.

K            It's funny how, you know, I am busy with work, but you're busy with traveling, so I'd rather be in your shoes.

D           Yeah, I'm sorry about that. 

K            No, you're good!

D           Yeah, that's the other thing. I was just telling you that I'm feeling a little scratchy, my voice. So guys, if that sounds a little strange, you'll know why. Yeah, I'm hoping I'm not sick. I just got back from a vacation. Yeah, and a lot of people are sick right now. So hoping, knock on wood, everything is good.

K            Yes, hopefully it’ll go around you.

D           Yes, yes. Okay, so the last time we talked, we had a topic about restaurants and we said, oh my gosh, we could talk about this for days. Probably there's so much more we wanna talk about, but we decided let's do a part two. So here we are, part two. All right. But before we do that, I wanted to talk about something really quickly. So there is a new feature on the podcast. We have nothing to do with this. We didn't put it there. We didn't even know it was there. We just discovered it. Apparently, there's a way to text message us. And we have gotten some text messages, but here's the thing. We can't reply. So…

K            And, and we've tried like we've looked everywhere and tried to figure out if there is a way to reply. There's just not a setting for that. So sorry.

D           There is not. So we'd love to hear from you, but we cannot reply. But it's a pretty cool way to kind of get you involved in our conversations, get to know you a little bit, right? Yeah. So like I said, we're to talk about restaurants today. And if you would like to join the conversation on your app for the podcast, you should see a link that says something like join the conversation and we'd love to hear from you.

Please tell us where you're from and tell us about a dish from your culture that you enjoy ordering in a restaurant. Bonus points if it's vegetarian. No, I'm just kidding.

K            It doesn't have to be vegetarian. Don't listen to her.

D           I know, know. So, okay, well, you know what? I didn't warn you of this, but I thought, since we're telling the folks out there that, do you have a favorite dish from your culture that, say when you go to the Ukrainian restaurant, you like to order?

K            I do. do. And you know, the funny thing is every time we go to [the] Chicago area, because we live a few hours away from Chicago for whoever hasn't heard our conversations before. There are a couple of Ukrainian restaurants up there or Polish. There's similar food between Ukrainian and Polish culture. And I always try to go there at least once during our trip. So, something that I pretty much order every time is borscht, which is Ukrainian beet soup or varenyky, which is kind of like Polish pierogi. So it's stuffed dumplings. And I like mine with cheese and potatoes, but my son likes his with meat and nothing else - has to have meat in it. So, but you know, that's something we always order, but every once in a while, which I, like my family, my husband and my son to try something new. So I always have something else to order so they can keep trying. But it's a staple for us. It's a tradition that anytime we can find a Ukrainian restaurant, we have to order borscht. It has to come with the dark bread and then varenyky, dumplings. 

D           Okay, it comes with dark bread, you said?

K            Yeah, it's not quite like a pumpernickel bread. It's more of a heavier wheat bread with molasses. It's a little more dense. It's like a black Ukrainian bread. I don't usually see them in stores here, and it's kind of labor intensive to make, so like difficult and takes time, but it's so good. So good. So, yeah.

D           Ooh, sounds great. Sounds good. Sounds good. Is borscht vegetarian?

K            It can be, yes. Just this regular borscht, usually it's just a bunch of vegetables, beets, and you kind of cook it all and you know that red color comes from it. And some people like me, I like to put sour cream in it at the end, like a little dollop. It just makes it so, I don't know, it just makes it better for me. But a lot of people don't. But you can add meat. Like if you want, you can have borscht with meat, but a lot of times people just make it vegetarian just with vegetables.

D           Okay.

K            So what about you? Do you have a favorite dish?

D           Yeah, I was thinking about this and the thing is, if you say “American food”, it's kind of like, what is that? 

K            Right, right. Good point.

D           So the only thing I could really think of is something that I really love. You know me and the breakfast. Yeah, yeah.

K            I would say that's an American thing because breakfast, you know, like it is an American breakfast. Usually it's something that defines kind of American cuisine as breakfast. Because when you look at other cultures, breakfasts are usually different.

D           Definitely. Yeah, I think it's pretty specific here and especially like where I live and when I went to New Orleans, that's where I just went. [I’ve] Always got to get breakfast and yeah, it's the best and I usually get eggs with a biscuit. This is not like the British kind of biscuit that we would call a cookie. This is like a nice buttery fluffy piece of bread and grits and

K            I was wondering if you were gonna say grits.

D           oh yeah, I love grits and it's one of those things that's very divisive. People either love them or hate them, but I love them.

K            Yeah. Yeah, that's true. There is a, you know, until I tried grits, you know, people would say, grits is this…and then the South, usually people like grits. I didn't know what it was. And in Ukrainian culture, there's a dish that's made out of corn meal, which that's what grits are. And we cook it. we loved it when we were kids, especially. So you kind of cook it in the water first until it kind of cooks up. Or sometimes people cook it in milk. And then at the end you put butter and it becomes like all creamy and nice. So we used to eat that for breakfast when we were kids back in Ukraine. 

D           Yeah, that's grits!

K            Right. But there is a, so there is a dish that's called banosh in my part of Ukraine where I grew up in Western Ukraine and it's grits, but they're, they become a little thicker because sometimes grits are kind of thin, this is a little thicker. And then people take some, which you won't like it because you're a vegetarian, but people take like bacon and onions and fry it and then kind of put it on top of grits. but when I was growing up, my mom would make, if it's for breakfast, she would make grits and then she would crack an egg, right? And fry it. But it's a runny egg, and then she would put it on top of grits and then you just kind of cut into it. Or grits on the bottom, sour cream on top and feta cheese. 

D           Alright – sounds great!

K            Yeah. So anyway, I digress - back to restaurants.

D           Okay. So yeah, let us know where you're from and what is your favorite dish that you like to order when you go to a restaurant. All right.

K            So funny story, when we're talking about breakfast for our listeners, anytime Donielle and I get together, we have to go out for breakfast, right? We usually, somehow we make it work that we go out for breakfast. Either it's a late breakfast or really late breakfast. And we order two different dishes, a savory one, so like eggs, know, hash browns, something salty, and the sweet one like pancakes or French toast or anything else, the waffles. And we ask for servers to bring us two plates and we always split. Like we always, I have a half of sweet and savory, Danielle will have half of sweet and savory. So I feel like it's our tradition now every time we see each other.

D           Yes, absolutely. I love that. I love to have sweet and savory together. Okay, now I'm getting hungry. I haven't had dinner yet, so…you know me. All right, so when we last talked about restaurants, we talked about fast food, we talked about sit down, kind of casual restaurants. We didn't really talk too much about fine dining. I don't know about you, but that isn't really something I do that much because fine dining equals lots of money.

K            Yes, fine dining is expensive here. Very expensive.

D           Yes. The good thing. No, I was going to say the good thing about the fine dining sometimes is they're very accommodating. know, they tend to be like, you don't eat meat. Oh, well, let's work something out for you. You know, we can, you know, make something that's not exactly on the menu. And of course, the service is always much better.

K            Right. You know, I don't go out for fine dining a lot either, partially because it is expensive. And sometimes I feel like the food is richer too, and you know, like lots of butter and all that. But recently, I actually went out with a couple of my friends that I haven't seen in a while. And we went to a fine dining restaurant. And you know, when you don't do it often, when you actually do that, it’s just such a pleasant experience because it is different. like you said, the service is much better and you know, the food is all kind of fancy and you can tell that they put a lot more attention to it. So it was, it was a nice experience, but yeah, it's expensive.

D           Yeah, it is. Like when I was on vacation, we went to a couple of nicer, you know, more expensive restaurants and it is a nice, it's a treat. You know, you're like, I'm on vacation. Let me go to a nice restaurant and oh, they're just so attentive. The servers and yeah. And you're like, ok! But yeah, that's definitely a treat and not a, you know, everyday kind of thing.

K            Right, right, I agree, I agree.

D           Well, I wanted to say, because I was doing a little, you know, planning and research, what we were going to talk about. And I noticed that when I read about people from other countries coming to the U S and going to restaurants and talking about their experiences, they think that the restaurant experience is very strange here. I read a lot about that and I thought, okay, yeah, it is definitely true. And especially when it comes to, you know, the tipping, which we're definitely going to talk about that in a minute because that's huge. But just like the, you know, the way you do things. And I saw a few people mention that that was one of the things about coming to the U S that they were a little bit nervous about, like how to navigate a restaurant. So I thought, let's talk about that a little bit. You know, we'll talk about some of the things that are a little bit different, a little bit maybe unusual, and then maybe you can throw out your comments too about your personal experience. What do you say? All right. So first of all, basically going into any kind of sit down restaurant, whether it's, you know, casual dining, fine dining, whatever, you go in, you...

K            Sounds good 

D           sit down or most of the time there's a host or something there or there's a little booth [misspoke: I meant to say sign] that says, know, wait for the server to see you or something like that, right? And sometimes they'll ask you, do you want a table or a booth? Do you ever get that?

K            Yes, I mean depends on the restaurant right if there's restaurants who have both options, they will ask you if you want a table or a booth.

D           Exactly. Now what do you prefer?

K            Usually a table. And the funny reason I have for it because usually booths are so deep that when I sit down, because I'm not very tall, my feet dangle. I can't touch the floor.

D           Really? That is so funny.

K            So, so I prefer a table because chairs are usually better height for me than the booth

D           I never thought of that. I don't think you're any shorter than me, right?

K            I might be just maybe an inch or two shorter than you. 

D           Hmm, I wouldn't have thought that at all.

K            But I for some reason, sometimes I feel like I'm not comfortable in booths and mainly because they're like really deep. And like when you try to scoot back or

D           Because I'm the opposite. prefer a booth. And I mentioned this the last time around what a booth was, but it's basically like a bench sort of thing. It's not an actual seat, but you'll have one bench on one side, one bench on the other. I love a booth because I feel like it's so cozy. I can slide in there. I can drop my purse next to me. I don't have to be looking where I can hang my purse, you know.

K            That's true. I mean, I can see the benefit of that appeal of being in the booth.

D           Yeah. All right. Okay. So then you sit down, right? You get a server come to you. I know some people say waiter, waitress. It's more current to use the term server. It's gender neutral and all that stuff. But one thing, this is where you're to start noticing differences, I think. Yeah, you're shaking your head. Yes, or nodding your head [I misspoke at first and corrected to nodding]. Yeah, a lot of this stuff is going to come down to tip, the tip difference. And the fact is the servers here are working for your tip and they are trying to make you happy. They are trying to be friendly and super inviting so that you, when it comes time for the bill, you are ready to leave them a nice, generous tip. Right? 

K            Right, right.

D           So they come up to the table and they greet you and they say, my name is so -and -so. And usually they say this, right? “I'll be taking care of you.”

K            Yes, they do. They do. 

D           Right? Yeah. I don't know when they started doing that, but I definitely noticed it. It's something they almost always say now. “My name is so -and -so and I'll be taking care of you today.” You know, kind of like just warm, inviting - I'm taking care of you, right?

K            You look like you need to be taken care of.

D           I do, I really do. So the other thing you're gonna notice, right, is how fast things happen. Because I know in a lot of countries, and you can tell me what your opinion is of this, but a lot of countries, it's an experience that you go, you sit, you talk, you linger at the table. In the US, people are like, get in, get out.

K            Right. That's something I just experienced earlier this year. We went on vacation to Canada and we were at restaurants there going, you know, going out and every place we went to, it was like things were slower, right? It took longer for food to come out. It took longer for them to take the plates out. And one of the biggest differences I noticed in this, like, you know, how long it takes. In the United States, they bring out your check at the end really quickly. Sometimes you're not even finished eating. They bring out the check, they put it on the table and they usually say, “No rush.” 

D           Right. Mm -hmm, they sure do.

K            In Canada, they would not bring out the check until you ask for it.

D           Really? Yeah. Well, I'm not surprised because I read that a lot too. And I want to say that people should not feel offended when they drop that check right away. It's like, like you say, they usually are like no rush, but they just want you to have it so you don't have to be chasing them down. And when you want to go, you can just go.

K            Think about that if you're coming from a different culture where you're used to having the meal as an experience, right? So you're taking your time and you know that you're not supposed, you're supposed to ask for [the] check when somebody comes to you and like, here's the check, no rush. You don't have to go, but like, don't take too long. Right? Isn't that the message that you think it sends? Like you don't have to go, but don't stay here. Here we go.

D           Right. Like the expression at the bar at closing time, they say, “You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.” I used to say that in the classes at the end when they were kind of lingering around and they didn't want to go; they’re...which is weird. know, I didn't really linger in my classes [when I was a student in school]. I was getting the heck out, right? But sometimes they would do that and I would be like, all right, guys, like they say in the bar 

K            Yeah, I do remember those times. But it was just interesting because I remember when we just got to Montreal in Canada and like the first night we were starving. So we got into this restaurant, they looked good and like the food looked good. And we're sitting there and you know, no waiters coming up. Like finally somebody came in and took our drink order and we're sitting there like starving. I would eat half the restaurant right now. And it's…and because everything is slower, which we didn't learn about it until later in the trip. I was like, then it makes sense. wasn't, it wasn't bad service. It's just how it is. It just takes a while. They want you to sit at the table and have a conversation and enjoy, you know, like enjoy this time together. But you know, us coming from America. Everything's fast. Everything has to be done quickly. Plus we were hungry. I was like, man, this is taking forever.

D           Yeah. I mean, it's nice until you get there and you're hungry and you're like, my gosh, where's the food? Yeah. Yeah. But this rushing thing, I think it's a combination of just our culture in general of like not really spending that time at the table, like other places do, but also from the server's perspective, they want turnover. They want to turn those tables fast because every table is going to bring them more money. And other countries, you know, you get paid for the amount of time that you're there. It has nothing to do with how many tables you serve. So yeah, there's a lot of that.

K            Right. And I think it might have to be also maybe the pay at the restaurants in other cultures is much better than it is in the United States because servers don't make much money in the United States. So tips is a lot of times what they rely on for the income. So

D           Exactly. Yeah, we're going to talk about that in detail too, because it's the weirdest thing and I think it needs some explanation. Okay. What else was I going say? I don't know how you find this to be, but I generally, and again, I think this all comes back to the servers want a good tip. So they're very accommodating. I noticed that if I go to restaurant and I don't see something exactly on the menu like I need it to be, as long as I ask nicely, and of course I always do, I'm very nice about it, “Oh, can you substitute this for that, or could I have this instead of that?” And almost always they're like, yeah, absolutely.

K            Yeah. And it should be that way too, because sometimes you just can't find what you're looking for on the menu. And I don't think it's that difficult to substitute. However, there are some restaurants where, know, like renowned chefs own… and they cook a dish the way they want with all the ingredients. So when you ask for substitution or some sort of modification, they get really upset about it. The cooks, the chefs. Yeah, yeah. Because it loses the flavor. It's not the same flavor, same combination of ingredients that's supposed to be in a dish. So they don't like it.

D           Yes, they can get offended for sure. Yeah. Well, I think it's not so much if you say you don't want this particular thing if you'd like, know, maybe especially if it's a dietary thing. But what they really hate is if you ask for like a well done steak or if you want to put something like ketchup on your steak or something, they go nuts because they're like, you're killing the food. 

K            Yeah, they are pretty particular about that.

D           Oh yeah, they really are. Yeah. So we also have a lot of freebies at the dinner table, right? We get free water. I know that's not the same in a lot of countries. 

K            That's true. Free water.

D           Chips sometimes, a basket of bread sometimes. Yeah.

K            Yes. Chips and like salsa or some sort of a dipping sauces. That's true. I… to tell the truth of … like, being in other countries or in Ukraine, like you don't usually get that you have to pay for all that.

D           Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I've heard. So, I did want to make it clear that if someone does put that on your table, you don't have to freak out. No one's charging you for it. If you didn't order it, but they put it, that means it's free. Yeah 

K            It's free. Yeah. One big difference also, I wanted to point out, you know, the drinks, when they bring out your drinks, usually in the United States, the ice will be already in your cup. And some other countries, you have to request if you want ice in your drink, because usually they would not put ice in there.

D           Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things that I've read that people kind of think is really strange about the US that we put ice in everything and a lot of ice, you know.

K            I've lived in the US for 19 years and I still think it's strange.

D           Yeah, especially, you know, like in the dead of winter or something. [The] last thing you want is some ice in your drink, but in the summer it's kind of refreshing.

K            Well, I mean, I agree with the summer part, but I agree with winter. Like who wants [an] ice cold drink in winter? Give me some tea.

D           No, well, the other problem is, you know, if you get ice and say like a soda or something, it starts melting and then you lose the flavor. That I don't like. Yeah.

K            Yeah, I agree, because then by the time you finish with your drink it's half watered down.

D           Yeah, definitely

K            But that's a way to save money for restaurants, right? Because if you fill a cup with half the cup with ice, then you don't have to pour as much of drink in there. However, the other side of it, which something that's usually not happening in other countries, refills - free refills for your drinks. Usually in the United States, you can get free refills for your drinks; in other countries, you got to pay for another drink every time you order.

D           Yeah, but there's a limit to that. That's soda, that's iced tea, that's hot tea too, coffee, but nobody's refilling your beer for free.

K            No.

D           It would be nice, but, you know …. 

K            They draw a line right there.

D           Yeah, they definitely do draw that line. What else? So yeah, I, this is the thing that I wanted to say. The portion sizes. I know we've talked about this before, but it's worth mentioning again, because you have to be mindful when you go to order something. Sometimes it sounds like not a lot. So you're like, I'll get this, this and that. Sometimes it's a lot and you know, the servers may be nice and tell you, that's a lot of food. That's too much. But again, they may not. Because taking food home is encouraged here. Really. If you order too much, a lot of people like to take it home for leftovers.

K            Right. And I know sometimes people freak out about that too. It's one of those things that you're not used to. If you're coming from another culture, I know I had to learn about it because, it's not something they do in Ukraine. Well, at least when I was there growing up, because you know, you eat what you eat and then whatever's leftover you're done. Like they just take it away. But then, right, the portion sizes are not as big as here, but I remember first time when they asked me, do you want a to-go box? And I was like, what is a to go box? Like who's going into the box? Like where are we going? So I've looked at my husband's like, going to the box? Like what are they talking about? And then I learned that you're right. It is encouraged here. Like if you don't finish your meal, they'll pack it up for you or they will bring you a little container. You can put it in and take it home. 

D           Yeah. And it depends on what it is that you've ordered. Like certain things don't really do well, you know, trying to heat it up the next day, but other things are delicious heated up. it's like, woo, I got two meals. You know, I went out one day and the next day I don't have to cook either. Yee -hoo. Yeah.

K            That's right. So I remember last year when we traveled to Ireland, we went to this tea time, like English tea at one of the hotels. And, I mean, there was my husband and my 10 year old, right? So they bring out these two huge towers of three plates each tower filled with all these little sandwiches and treats and, you know, cookies and all sorts of stuff, right? And I remember I looked at the waitress like, my goodness, what am I going to do? We were not going to be able to eat all this food. And she must have seen my face. and she goes, “Oh, don't worry. You can take the rest home, whatever you don't eat.” You know how much, how, you know how much we ate after that? We had the rest for dinner that day and breakfast the next day. It was that much food.

D           I love that. I'm a big fan of leftovers. yeah, I love it. And certain things taste better the next day, I think. 

K            Yes, absolutely. Yes.

D           Yeah. Like I said, it really, makes a difference what it is. Some things are horrible, heated up, and some things are even better. So, all right. Well, I'm going to have to get right into this whole tip business because we're, as always, running out of time. It's amazing how fast time goes when you're talking about food. Okay. So here we go.

K            I know! All right, go for it.

D           Here's the situation on tipping. We have a federal minimum wage for most workers, which is pretty low to begin with, but there is an exception for service, food service providers. And the minimum wage is so low. Of course, it varies from state by state because, you know, we can't ever do anything as a country here. We've got to do everything state by state, but it can be as low as $2.13 per hour. Nobody can live on that. You literally have to have tips to survive. And here's a little bit of trivia for you, because I had to look this up. As I said, it is $2.13 an hour minimum. So other states are more than that. When did they make that law? So it's been $2 .13 since when? How long has it been that amount? Do you know?

K            Oh gosh, no idea.

D           1991.

K            No way! 

D           Yes.

K            What was it before?

D           I couldn't find it. I looked everywhere, could not find it. It was probably like maybe, you know, $1.80 or something like that. Who knows? 

K            That is terrible!

D           Yeah, that's crazy. So, you know, people don't understand. They think it's ridiculous that you've got to pay a tip. And yes, it is. I get it and I agree. But I firmly believe and I will die on this hill. That means no changing my mind. I will die on this hill that you've got to tip. You've got to tip at least 18%. I mean, it's, it's just, there's just no way out of it. The other thing is a lot of people don't know this, especially, and maybe some of the nicer restaurants, the servers often have to tip out to the kitchen staff, to the bar staff…means out of the tips that they receive, they have to tip, say the bus boys, whatever that word is supposed to be, I don't know. [The word I was trying to remember was “bussers”] The dishwasher, the bartender.

K            the dishwashers, right? Right, so they take the tips and then they kind of divide it among other staff because, I mean, but that's the thing that like whoever washes dishes or cleans the tables, they don't have a chance to earn [a] tip. 

D           Exactly. So it's fair, but if you don't know that, it doesn't make sense. Well, it doesn't make sense. I'm going to clearly say it does not make sense, but it is what we have to work with. So that's it. Then of course you've got taxes, right? So that's another thing, taxes on the food. So you have to keep that in mind, but when you're going to tip, you calculate your tip on the pre-tax amount. So this can make a big difference. If you've got a large bill, your tax could be quite high. Don't include that. You calculate your tip based on what the pre-tax, you know, food and drink amount is. Sometimes you'll get the check and it will come…either clearly or not so clearly tell you that the tip is already included. So it depends if you have a...a larger group or maybe that's just the policy of the restaurant. So you really want to check your bill carefully and make sure they haven't already added it because you don't want to… you can give them a little more if you feel like they deserve it, but you certainly don't want to do another 18% or 20% if they've already done that. So yeah.

K            Yep, that's true.

D           what else about tips? I think that's pretty much it. It's just, I want to stress that as dumb as it is, it's really important. And that's really why you're going to get such, such friendly service. And I don't know if you ever noticed this, but the closer you get in this process to receiving the check, the friendlier your server will get.

K            You know, I never noticed that. I guess I never paid attention, but I think now I'm going to.

D           Oh yeah, it happens a lot. mean, and not to say that they aren't friendly anyway. I mean, they generally are. If you get an unfriendly server, it's pretty rare, but they will definitely, you know, take it up a notch and get even more friendly as they're about to drop you that bill. They want to…

K            You know, I was just thinking, don't, I don't think we've, we've done an episode on tipping because there's so many other places where you have to tip that. I wonder if we might want to do an episode on that just to prepare our listeners.

D           Yeah, I think it would be good. Yeah. I think the restaurant one is probably the most important because I mean, you know, that's where their livelihood really depends on it. And I think a lot of people don't understand because it is a strange concept. I agree. But anyway, I'm noticing that we are running out of time again, as always happens. But I hope this has been an interesting conversation. Do reach out and let us know what your favorite dish is, where you're from and all of that. Don't forget the show notes. I always forget to say this. I'll go through, we'll have some vocabulary, maybe some cultural notes, whatnot. And I think that's about it. So until next time, here's to good coffee, good vibes and great conversations. Cheers.

K            Cheers.