Episode 19: Superstitions

Superstitions are common in just about all cultures, and they are so much fun to discuss! In today’s episode Donielle and Khrystyna talk about superstitions that are common in the U.S., and Khrystyna shares some unique Ukrainian superstitions. Be sure to grab the show notes for even more content!

Transcript

D             Welcome to Coffee and Conversation for ESL Listening. I'm Donielle.

K             And I'm Khrystyna, so grab a cup and join the conversation.

D             Hey there, happy October!

K             Oh Yeah, happy October. Oh, wait, wait, wait.  I think that's your favorite month of the year, isn't it? Yeah, I remember correctly. And partially, I think maybe because your birthday is in October.

D             Well, we try to forget about that little business, but you know, I do love Halloween, as you know. Oh, it's Halloween. It's pumpkins and bats and black cats and all that fun stuff.

K             All that cool stuff, yeah. Plus, I think October is just like such a wonderful time with all the colors of leaves and apples everywhere. I like the cooler weather a little bit. Oh, it's just, I like this time of year too.

D             Yeah, I do love warm weather, but this year was a little much. With the heat, it was crazy.

K             I agree. I mean, we just finally started cooling down here because it was hot, hot, hot.

D             Yeah, same. It's actually still kind of hot here and we don't really get all those colors and all that stuff you're talking about, but it's a little better.

K             Yeah, October is fun.

D             So we don't really have a, let's say, Halloween theme or anything going on today, but we do have something kind of fun. And to start this off, I'm going to ask you, Khrystyna, did you realize that this Friday is Friday the 13th?

K             Yes.

D             So the question is, are you superstitious?

K             Well, not necessarily. I wouldn't consider myself superstitious, but there are some things that I feel like unconsciously I do that might be considered superstitious.

D             Same

D             Before we get into it, I think we probably need to make sure we are saying what superstitious means. I think probably a lot of people know about this out there, but just want to make sure superstition, I don't really have a definition here in front of me, but basically, it's a belief or an activity that you do that's not based on any logic or science or anything like that. But just...because the idea of luck or fate or something like that. So right now, when I asked about Friday the 13th, I don't know how prevalent this is in the rest of the world, but it's considered an unlucky day in the United States and more broadly the number 13 people associate with being unlucky. So we'll talk a little more about that in a bit. but I just want to make sure that everybody is clear when we're talking about superstitions and what being superstitious means. So tell me what are you superstitious about?

K             Oh, so I think the most common one, you know, when you say something and you don't want to jinx it or make bad luck so you would knock on wood three times.

D             Yes.

K             I think that's the most common one that I would use. But I do have one more that I do. And it's so silly, but for some reason, I unconsciously do that every single time. So in my culture in Ukraine, there's the superstition that when you leave your house to go somewhere like work or anywhere, right? Like leaving the house, you shouldn't come back halfway through until you're done with what you had to do and then you return home. But if you, for example, sometimes you forget something - or they say you shouldn't return because it's kind of bad luck, like something will happen during that journey.

D             I feel like you've mentioned this before but I can't remember when and I don't remember like why -- this is a very strange one.

K             Oh, it's something about, so a lot of superstition in my culture is based on like old pagan beliefs right before Christianity and all that stuff. So and they still kind of stuck around in, you know, in like traditions and all that. But-- so they say if you do have to return for some reason, like, you know, if you forgot something important, then you should look into a mirror and make a silly face or stick your tongue out. And then you can go back out and you won't have bad luck. I told you it was silly.

D             Oh my gosh, is this like to scare away bad spirits or something?

K             Yes.

D             There's a lot of superstitions about mirrors. It's funny.

K             Yes, yeah, that's true. But there's a lot of superstitions in my culture about spirits in your house, like outside of [the] house and in your house. So like your house is supposed to be protected by all these good spirits. So this whole thing of being inside the house, outside of [the] house, like because there's bad spirits outside and you can either bring them in or somehow they will sneak in. So there's a lot of superstitions between you know, inside and outside of the house. That is interesting. So what about you? Are you superstitious?

D             You know, I don't want to say that I am, but certainly I do the knock on wood thing. That's a really interesting one too, because I feel like that's one of the most universal ones out there. Every culture, every person I've talked to from all different cultures, if they don't exactly have the knock on wood, and I think it is the three times knock on wood, it may be knocking on metal or it could be… I have -- yeah I know right on your head right -- I also have a student um and I believe that instead of knocking on wood she'll say something and she'll tap her teeth three times yeah she's from Czech Republic (or what is it called now? Czechia or something? Oh dear, ok)

K             I’ve never heard of that one.

D             Anyway, yeah, so everybody I've talked to, they have some variation of that.

K             But, yeah, variation, that was a good word. Yeah. How interesting.

D             Yeah. And I definitely do that. I do the knock on wood -- or knock on something and say that it's wood.

K             Yeah. Right. Well, are there any other superstitions that you usually catch yourself doing?

You know, I really… on a regular basis, no, but I will tell you some stories as we go through some of these, as we get to them. And I'll tell you my little personal connections with them. But as far as like something regular that I do, no, I really can't think of anything that I do. I don't think I'm overall a superstitious person for the most part.

K             Yeah. Well, and you know, with the superstitions, I mean, that, you know, if you don't believe in them, they don't necessarily work or do any harm to you. But I feel like they're just such … they're just such interesting tradition, like the different cultural differences with the, you know, how superstitions in different places are and like the meanings and all these people. And sometimes you think-- like, who would have thought of this? Why would this specific thing mean this? So they're always, I feel like they're interesting. They're really interesting.

D             Yes, they definitely are. And how people can be so adamant that, don't do this because it's bad luck. They really take it seriously.

K             You know, my mom, I feel like she believes in, like she's superstitious. So she believes with these things, with bad luck and good luck, sometimes a little too much. A little too much.

D             Yeah, but they definitely are interesting. And as I was thinking about this and doing a little bit of research, I thought to myself, we could be talking for hours about this thing. Don't worry, we're not going to do that. But man, there's just so much about this, especially when you get into different cultures. Probably won't get into much of that today, except for what you have to share. But yeah, I would just love to talk more about this some other time. But let's get into it.

Let's start with the good stuff. Good luck, good luck superstitions. And I came up with a few things, what we started talking about knock on wood that's sort of a, I guess, could be good luck or avoiding bad luck kind of thing. You could look at it either way. But here's another thing I think I probably do without thinking much about it is crossing your fingers. When you say, you know, you hope something is gonna happen, you cross your fingers. Do you do that?

K             Yeah, yeah, we have that. Or sometimes, you know how people cross their fingers and they kind of hold them somewhere that you can't see it? So they say if you cross your fingers, sometimes you're supposed to, like, not to show it. So that's for good luck.

D             Really? Oh, that's interesting. I haven't heard that -- because that reminds me of, I don't, -- I haven't heard this in a long time. I kind of remember this as a kid that they would say, you can tell a lie as long as you cross your fingers. And so you'd usually put it like behind your back. So people didn't know you were doing that, but I'd forgotten about that.

K             I know. Yeah, remember that. Yeah, that's a that's a good one. The crossing fingers. One of the things I know of is a horseshoe. Like a lot of people would have horseshoe hanging somewhere in their house. Because they say it's a good luck and you know, like brings good, good spirits and, you know, all that.

D             Right. Yeah, that's an interesting one. I'm not sure why that is. It just seems a little bit random. But then if you think about all of these are kind of random, kind of like a four-leaf clover, that's also supposed to be good luck.

K             I know that's interesting. And I don't know, is it because mostly there's three leaf clovers and that's why it's hard  to find a four-leaf clover?

D             Well, that's what I would think. But I remember again, when I was a kid and clearly had nothing better to do, um, my friend and I, we would just be out in the yard, just goofing off and we're like, Hey, let's look for some four leaf clovers, right? And so we went out there for about half an hour or something, looking through the grass and all that. And when you're actually looking for them, you can find a ton of them. So I don't know how rare they are.

K             And we have the same thing about lilac. So when you get a lilac and you look through the flowers, like just a regular common lilac, when you look at those little flowers, usually they have four leaves. But every once in a while you'll come across one that has five petals, not four. So apparently if you find those, you're supposed to eat one of those little things and it's supposed to bring you good luck. As kids, we would do it all the time. Like sometimes my parents would bring some lilac flowers inside to put in the water and, you know, the vase, so we would sit there and look through all those little flowers to find five petal ones.

D             You would eat the petal? Oh, that's hilarious.

K             And you know, there's one that's like, it's kind of based like on this legend or something in my country. And you're supposed to find a bloom of a fern, some sort of a fern plant, right? And there's this one night a year that like couples who are in love are supposed to go and look for that bloom of the fern. And it's supposed to bring them luck and keep them together and all that. I don't know how, you know, it's, I feel like it's kind of like a legend and superstition because I was reading recently that a fern doesn't bloom.

 D             I was gonna say I didn't think it did. I guess this means a happy love life is unattainable then, apparently.

 K             I know, it's like you’re set up for failure right off the bat there. Don't even bother. It's terrible. Yeah.

D             That is really funny. I love it. That's a good one.

K             Gosh. What other ones?

D             What else? Oh, what about itchy palm?

K             Oh my gosh, itchy palm. OK, so here's another one that I use unconsciously. I do this every time. And now my husband. Like, he I think I infected him with this. So when you have an itchy palm, okay, so how do you know this? Like, what is the superstition you know about an itchy palm?

D             Well, I've always heard itchy palm just generally means you're getting money. But as I was looking into it now, I saw something about well, left-hand money out, and right-hand money in. Oh, it's the reverse?

K             And I know it as the reverse -  left: if you have a left itchy palm, it's money in, and a right itchy palm, it's not money out, but you're going to come across an old friend because you're going to shake their hand.

D             Okay. Got it. Okay. Well, that's a little bit more positive because now I'm sitting here. I'm going to be worrying every time my palm itches. Is it the left one or the right one? Am I going to lose money? Am I going to find money?

K             Yeah. So it's funny because like something of the other day, my husband and I were talking and I said, Oh gosh,  my palm is itching. And he goes, well, let's see. It's a pay day on Friday.

D             But I think it has to be like extra money, right? I mean, you know, not just usual money, hopefully.

K             Probably --  half the time it doesn't work, so...

D             Well, you know, you got to keep hoping, right? Keep hope alive.

K             That’s what makes it fun.

D             That's hilarious. Well, that's all I have for exactly--well, I mean, I have some other good luck things, but they're related to numbers. And we'll talk about that in a minute. Do you have anything else for good luck or should we move to bad luck?

K             So I have, I have, oh, there's plenty of bad luck superstitions in my culture because…

D             Doesn't it feel like there's more of those than good luck ones?

K             Oh my gosh, I have, I have a couple of good luck [ones]. Okay. So this one is you're supposed to have like a seat, before you leave. So for example, you have like guests over, right? And before they leave your house, you're supposed to sit down for a little bit and then go because they say that if you're in a rush, then you might, you know, let the good spirits out of the house. But if you sit down and wait a little bit, then the house good spirits will kind of like calm down and all that. And then you can go. So you're not supposed to rush out of somebody's house, technically.

D             Wow. It seems like these spirits are just juggling to try to get in and out of houses.

K             I know that's the whole theme here. Okay, so there's one more that's for good luck and it's absolutely crazy. And I would not want that to happen to me to have good luck. If you're somewhere outside and if a bird poops on you…

D             I knew it, I knew it, I don't know why but I knew it.

K             it's for the good luck. So my friend once, back home was at the park during her lunch break and she was eating an ice cream. And she said, little do you know this bird flies by [and] poops right on the middle of the ice cream. And she said, it’s supposed to be for good luck, but right now I don't feel like it's good luck ‘cause I’ve gotta throw this away.

D             So did anything good happen?

K             I don't know. That was the whole, like, that's as far as she told me because she was so annoyed with that stupid bird.

D             Oh. Well, I have to tell you that I have had a bird poop on me also, right on my head.

K             [gasp] NO!

D             Like, like a bullseye right on my head. Sure did. Mm hmm. Uh, yeah, I don't remember if any good luck thing happened after that. I'm going to go ahead and say probably no.

K             You're generally a lucky person, I think, so maybe that's what it is.

D             Okay, maybe. Sure. Yeah.

K             Just to make it worth it for you.

D             Oh, but that was so annoying too. Cause I was at work and I was on my lunch break and I went -- I was, um, I was in Chicago and I was walking under the train on Wabash, you know, how there's those trains there and I was going somewhere and right by the train track, this bird and it was like running and going down my hair and I was like, ugh! And I had to find some place to go and like wash my hair out. It was so disgusting.

K             Oh! Did you at least get to go home after that or did you have to go back to work?

D             Oh, please, nobody cares about that. They're like, work, work, work!

K             Oh man, oh that's too bad.

D             All right. So let's get to the bad luck. And the first one, I will say I have a little bit of a personal connection to this one, and that is: walking under a ladder. Is that one that is common for you too? Okay. Yes. Apparently that is bad luck. And because I tell you I am not a suspicious – no, superstitious -- I'm definitely a suspicious person. But I say that I am not a superstitious person. And one day I was walking, it was a long time ago, but I remember this like yesterday. I was walking down the street, I was in Chicago again, and there was a ladder that was over the sidewalk completely. So in order to get to the other side, I had to make a decision. I could see it coming, you know, in the horizon. I could see it up there. I had to decide, am I walking under this ladder? There was plenty of space. So there was no reason not to, it was a big ladder. Or I'd have to walk around and into the street. And I thought, I am not a superstitious person. I am no fool. I am not going to do this. I'm going to go straight through. Hello, come what may, right? I walked through there. And let me tell you something, I won't get into it, but I had a period of about six months of personal, very, very bad things going on. And it started like the next day. And I remembered that freakin’ ladder. And I said, it was the ladder. I will never, and let me tell you, I'll never do it again. I will never walk under a ladder again because of that.

K             So these superstitions do work.

D             I don't know, but it was too much of a coincidence. I know, right? It was too much of a coincidence. I clearly remember that. And I thought to myself, oh my gosh, I walked under that ladder yesterday. This is why this is happening to me. And I'll never do it again.

 K             That's crazy!

D             Yeah, so when I say I'm not superstitious -- mostly.   How about you, would you walk under a ladder?

K             I feel like I've done it before. I mean, mostly like I, I don't want to walk under the ladder because I feel like it's gonna fall on me or something's gonna fall on me, but not necessarily for the superstitious reasons. You know, the other thing too, they say not to open an umbrella inside. And I never believed in that because, you know, a lot of the times you come from the outside when it's pouring and the only way to dry out your umbrella is to open it and kind of, you know, put it on the floor. And I've done it all my life. I never thought any differently.

D             Me too. I think that one's ridiculous. Yeah. I say, I say forget about that one. That that's a no for me. The ladder though, mm-mm. [no way]

K             Yeah, yeah. So do you know about this superstition that you're not supposed to like, spill the salt? Have you heard of that one? Yeah, if you spill the salt, then it's going to be some sort of like a quarrel or fight or something like that. And they say usually you take the salt and kind of throw it over your shoulder. Right?

D             Right. To reverse the bad luck. Yep. Exactly. Yeah.

K             I think my mom believed in that a lot.

D             I think a lot of people do. In fact, when I was taking a look before we met, you know, about superstitions, somewhere, several places I read that that is the most common superstition in the United States, which I find that hard to believe. I mean,

K             It's throughout the world because other cultures have this superstition too.

D             Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, that's true. But I mean, as far as being the most common in the US, I feel like there are more that we believe, you know, more so than that. But I don't know. I mean, I know I spill salt all the time and I don't do anything about it. I don't throw it over my shoulder. So…

K             Me neither.

D             Then there's the black cat crossing your path. Now this one makes me upset because no: any cat that crosses my path, that's good luck in my book.

K             Yeah, I don't believe in a black cat because I mean, I've had that happen multiple times. And, you know, I think maybe that's what it is with the superstitions. Like it will happen as much as you want it to happen. Or, you know, as much as you believe in it, then it might happen to you. But, you know, we have a lot of, like a bad luck superstitions that even involve the meaning of death.

D             Oh yeah, so much for that.

K             So, oh, just crazy. So for example, if somehow a bird flies inside your house, through the window or door, that it means somebody in the family or somebody you might know will die. And I remember that happened before, like, and I don't know if it was necessarily superstition, it was a coincidence, but there were a couple times that a bird flew into our house once - when I was growing up. And like, my, I remember my parents, one of my parents, very good friends passed away shortly after that, or I think there was this one time that a bird flew into the house. And I think that's when my grandpa passed away shortly after that. So I feel like it's a very strongly believed superstition. Because like things happen after that. The other thing is, there's this really, weird belief that you're not supposed to celebrate your birthday before the actual date.

 D             Okay, I think I've heard of that one, yeah.

 K             And I noticed in the United States, that's not the case, usually. But I know every time I talk to my mom and we would say like, Oh, we're going to celebrate so-and-so's birthday, but she's like, well, but it's not until this day, you're not supposed to do that. Right. So it's like a bad, bad luck. And here's another one that's a crazy one, actually flowers, right?

D             Oh a lot with those.

K             Um, right. So in the United States, you usually--when you gift flowers, they're like what, a dozen, two dozen, half a dozen, right? So it's usually an even amount of flowers. In Ukraine, you only bring an even amount of flowers to somebody's funeral.

D             Okay. Ooh, I bet your husband learned this real fast -- the proper way to do this.

K             No, because I never told him actually, because I don't believe in that. Yeah, but I know, so we always like if we gifted somebody flowers, it always had to be odd number of flowers in there.

D             That’s interesting

K             But I figured, you know, my husband is pretty good about buying me flowers and all that, so that's very sweet of him. But he always like, you know, sends me either a dozen or something like that. So it's not -- I mean, 18 years, we've been okay, I think.

D             Yeah, I'd say you're safe.

K              But I thought it was interesting, kind of. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. It's just crazy with these superstitions.

D             My cat just decided to sit on my notes, so...

K             Oh, that's okay.

D             Oh, so I wanted to talk about Friday the 13th, right?

K             So why is that considered bad luck?

D             I don't really know. I didn't actually do any deep research on the history that I probably should have, but it is very interesting because definitely we are weird about that one. I don't even know that we necessarily believe it, but it's just kind of a cool thing to be like, oh, Friday the 13th, watch out. And especially because this year it's in October. So yeah, you know, it's like, oh, it's October, it's Halloween, it's Friday the 13th and that kind of thing. But I did read that some people are very serious about - like they won't fly on Friday the 13th. And it made me wonder…

K             Like, on the airplane or a broom? [note: this is in reference to the popular Halloween image of witches flying on a broom]

D             No, that's on Halloween day. That's—no, in a plane; yeah, they will not book a trip to fly on Friday the 13th and it made me wonder, do you think that airfares are any cheaper if you tried to…

K             Oh, that’s a good point!

D             ….you know? Cause if there's a lot of superstitious people out there, you know.

K             Oh, that might be a good time to like plan a trip when you buy… you know, like on Friday.

D             I don't know. I feel like it's like tempting fate again, like with that ladder thing. I don't know if I want to do that. You don't want to mess around. With a ladder, it's one thing. With a plane, I don't want to mess around.

K             Wait, you said you weren't superstitious as much. Ha ha ha.

 D             Yeah. You know, you can never be too careful. But yeah. So Friday the 13th, I don't know, but 13 in general is considered bad luck. I think there's some religious background that we won't get into that has to do with that, but it's really funny how serious people are about that one. I don't think so much anymore. But historically, I think it was a really strong superstition. And if you ever go to any old buildings, especially, you'll see there's no floor 13. And in fact, another Chicago story, I worked in an older building in Chicago. And I worked on the 14th floor. Of course, it wasn't the 14th floor. It's really the 13th floor. But of course it went from 12 to 14. And I always joked about that because it was a terrible job. It was so awful. The boss was mean and crazy. And I thought to myself, I'm sorry, we didn't fool anybody. These spirits did not get fooled one bit with this whole 12 to 14 business. They know it's the 13th floor.

K             Oh that is interesting.

D             Yeah. And planes. Planes will have -- they have kind of weird numbering sometimes, but there's no row 13 on planes.

K             That’s true; I never paid attention to that, but you're right. I need to be a little more intentional about it to pay attention to these things. Huh, interesting.

D             I can't say that no planes have it, but I think it's pretty common. Most planes do not have a row 13. And it just goes to tell you, you know, how serious people take superstitions. It's kind of like, I'm not superstitious, but I'm not taking any chances either.

K             Yeah. Well, you know how like in the United States, 13, like if when you think about, you know, the dozen, right, this 12 and 13, they call it a baker’s dozen, right?

D             Yeah, Baker's dozen. Yeah, but that's good luck.

K             Right. But in my culture, 13 is called Devil's dozen.

D             So no bakers are giving out extra cookies for good luck, huh? No.

K             Oh, no. Oh, no. So here's another thing, you know, when you think about superstitions, a lot of it has to do with like bad luck, good luck. But a lot of it also has to do with money.

D             Oh, yeah.

K             You know, and like, couples to like spouses or something like one of the things that the you know, when you when you're celebrating something, you know, people cheer, like cheer each other and then they touch their glasses, right, or whatever with the drink. Yes, like a toast and all that. So in Ukraine, it's bad luck if, um, spouses do that with each other. So they can toast with everybody else in a room except for each other, because that's supposed to bring poverty, like no money, right? If they do that, they will lose money.

D             Oh, yeah, you don't want that.

K             Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

D             Yeah. Weddings are full of superstitions and I think we should have an episode about weddings too and we can talk more about some of the superstitions for those because there are a ton.

K             Oh, that's a great idea. And just talk about, you know, like the traditions in general and all that with the wedding, because there are a lot of little things in there. So, um, another thing is like, you're not supposed to whistle inside the house.

 D             I’ve heard that one too.

K             Yeah, again, you whistle your money away.

D             There are so many about money. Like, I'm not even going to get a chance to talk about these, but there's the South in the United States, the Southern region. They're very famous for their superstitions as well. And one of them, and I think this is also a Latin American one, because I used to have a coworker who was from Mexico, and she would just give me such a hard time if I ever came in the house and I put my purse on the floor. She'd say, no, no, no! Don't put your purse on the floor! The money goes out --  purse on the floor, money out the door.

K             Yes. Yeah. I, it's the same one too. Like we have the same one

D             Oh, you have that one too? Okay.

 K            Oh yeah. Yes. So I know we're coming up on time here. What is like the craziest superstition you've ever heard of or experienced or anything? Is there one that…?

D             I mean, I don't know. There are a lot of really weird ones, but they're not coming to me right now. Do you have any that are really, really strange?

K             I do. This one is kind of crazy. And when I was growing up, my mom always made me actually follow it, like do it. You know how sometimes your button falls out or you have a little rip and you're trying to do a quick sewing job while you're still wearing this thing?

D             Okay….?

K             So when you do that, you're supposed to have a little piece of thread in your mouth, like to chew on, because if you try to sew something on a piece of clothing that you're still wearing, they say that you will like… become crazy. Like you will sew your brains together. Yeah. That you will kind of go insane. So every time I remember you know, sometimes I like my button was falling off on my coat and rather than taking the coat off, I just took a thread and tried to sew it really quickly because I was in a hurry for something. And I remember it was like, make sure you chew on the little thread because, you know, you don't want to go crazy and sew your brains away. And, you know, gosh, yeah. How crazy is that?

D             That is a funny one. So rather than just taking your coat off, you went ahead and put the thread in your mouth.

K             Eh, it was faster.

D             Okay. That is a good one. Yeah, you didn't lie when you said that there was no shortage of superstitions -- that you could share. You were not kidding.

K             Oh, yeah, that's not even half of what my notes are.

D             I know, same here. It's amazing how many of these things there are but, yeah--, I think this is a good place to end it because wow, that's a lot. Oh, I want to say one more because I was talking about how I'm not superstitious, and I said but sometimes I am a little bit… there is one more thing that I used to do I had forgotten all about it until I was preparing for this, but I absolutely did this for a long time, especially when I was younger and money was an issue and I was always like budgeting and worrying about, you know, counting my pennies and everything. I had heard, because numerology is a big thing and a lot of that I think is related to superstition. And something that I had heard in several places was that you should take a piece of paper and a pencil and write the number eight on a piece of paper, fold it up, put it in your wallet, and forget about it. And it's supposed to attract money. And I had that thing in my wallet for a really long time.

K             Interesting. I wonder why number eight is it because it's like a symbol of infinity?

 D             I think so. I think it has something to do with that. Numerology is another interesting thing. It's very complicated, but man, there's a lot to it. Yeah. So very cool talking about this stuff with you. Um, we'll have to, like I said, we'll have to have a part two or talk about more superstitions and other fun things and weddings. I think that would be a really cool topic to discuss.

K             I agree.

D             But in the meantime, here's to good coffee, good vibes and great conversations. Cheers.

K             Cheers.